Talk:Sun Tzu
PNA I don't find any references to this text, or the required reading status thereof, in the script or transcripts available online of the episode cited. I'm unable to check the episode right now, but I'm marking this down as suspect until someone can. -- Capricorn (talk) 20:32, September 25, 2017 (UTC) : From Chapter 3: :* Riker: '"He will triumph who knows when to fight and when not to fight."' :* Picard: "I'm glad the Academy still teaches the strategies of Sun Tzu." : The same chapter was also paraphrased in : :* REED: "Being smart is more important. General Sun Tzu said that the greatest victories are those won without fighting." :--Alan del Beccio (talk) 20:40, September 25, 2017 (UTC) Yeah and all this is described as stuff said by Sun Tzu, and consequently documented very well at Sun Tzu. However, what I'm wondering is if The Art of War specifically was mentioned, or if it was ever said that the book was required reading material as opposed to his strategies just being taught. If not, I don't see the point of having articles for both Sun Tzu and his text. -- Capricorn (talk) 21:27, September 25, 2017 (UTC) : It was an exact quote from the text. Regardless, you're going to twist this however you want anyway so have at it. Asked and answered. --Alan del Beccio (talk) 21:37, September 25, 2017 (UTC) You might want to go back and read that Assume Good Faith guideline again. -- Capricorn (talk) 03:05, September 26, 2017 (UTC) Merge We now have Quotations in Star Trek - move this there? --LauraCC (talk) 16:47, July 27, 2018 (UTC) :Wel, no. That page is just for unattributed quotes (the page exist because those can't be documented anywhere else), it's not a list of every time someone quoted someone else. We've been through this before actually. -- Capricorn (talk) 17:25, July 27, 2018 (UTC) Okay, but the book is never mentioned by name (or to my knowledge, seen with the title visible). --LauraCC (talk) 17:48, July 28, 2018 (UTC) :Yes, see above discussion. I happen to be of the strong opinion that we shouldn't have this page, but no consensus was reached. But, the quotes don't have to go on The Art of War, they fit even better at Sun Tzu, given that that's the guy stated on screen to have produced the quotes. -- Capricorn (talk) 04:51, July 29, 2018 (UTC) Yeah, okay. --LauraCC (talk) 14:52, July 31, 2018 (UTC) :: One thing about this that still poses a point of hypocrisy, how many songs or musical compositions has MA identified by lyric or by various movements that where not identified specifically by name? It really seems to me that if you can identify "Magic Carpet Ride" by it's lyrics, then you should be able to identify The Art of War by its text, and much the same with any other literary reference that came from a quote that can be attributed to a certain bound reference, that I know has been discussed elsewhere. --Alan (talk) 13:11, October 17, 2018 (UTC) :The way I interpret it, the reason we have a page on "Magic Carpet Ride" even though the song was not identified is because we need a place to document that song, and having all songs not explicitly identified on "unnamed music" was deemed too cumbersome/unpractical. This is evident from the fact that if Cochrane had played "Magic Carpet Ride" but due to some inexplicable writer error also actually said "this song is called Mary Had a Little Lamb by Nine Inch Nails", we'd have the song called that instead, even though we could still identify the song playing as "Magic Carpet Ride". We have quotes by Sun Tzu, which are on screen identified as quotes by Sun Tzu, so the most straightforward way to fulfill our mission of documenting this stuff is by placing them at Sun Tzu. This approach also has the desirable characteristic of making as few assumptions as possible: for all we know, some of those people quoting the art of war had never even heard of the book and just got the quote of the back of a cereal box, assuming Sun Tzu was the name of the mascot. -- Capricorn (talk) 20:52, January 17, 2019 (UTC) :: Those ends still don't justify the means, and I'm sorry, but there is no reasonable way one can effectively argue that song lyrics =/= literature text, because no matter which way perceive it, or which type of media it is presented as, you are identifying a work of art by a quotation from the work of art. --Alan (talk) 21:05, January 17, 2019 (UTC) Sun Tzu (mirror) The Sun Tzu Georgiou mentioned was presumably the main universe version, because she was talking about someone that Saru had studied. And to be clear, this remains true even if Georgiou learned the quote by studying her own universe's version of the man (which isn't even certain). What happens if two suns are merged? Let's find out! -- Capricorn (talk) 09:02, October 22, 2019 (UTC) : The exact information was already on the other page. --Alan (talk) 04:38, December 4, 2019 (UTC)